[1]The C64 Community Loading... This site is best viewed in a modern browser with JavaScript enabled. Joysticks, keyboards and connections Wombstar It's great being able to plug a second joystick in for those wonderful two player games but will theses joysticks be sold somewhere? Or do we have to buy any random stick that will fit? Ideally we would want to buy one just like the one that comes in the box. Being able to plug in a USB keyboard is handy,, but it's shame nobody has made a USB Commodore keyboard to use. My Telly doesn't have a HDMI socket, as not all tellys do, is there any other way to connect it? It seems the developers didn't consider this problem. Other wise i wont be able to have on [2]:( -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wombstar Doesn't look like i have a socket for that either.. [3]:( -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ReflectedLightEntertainment This message is also for the THEC64 Team, With a replica C64c case (I believe it is possible to make a suitable C64 breadbin case for the Keyrah v2) and use a Keyrah v2 from individual computers and a real C64 keyboard. If the actual original keyboards can be effectively reproduced using Cherry mechanical keys and made it work 100% for original C64 but also for these Mini's it would be a nice buy for those seeking the more authentic feel of the C64 keys. Key caps can be printed with all the proper key letters and symbols. I would go with the idea of printing on the front face of the keys the C= graphic symbols and on the top, the letters of the keys as they would on real C64 but also in an offsetted color(s), differently mapped PC key binding. With a side panel with joystick ports, power switch and an barrel hole jack port with a changeable plate for regular C64 motherboard so the case can also be used for that. Making room for people who may also want to get an Ultimate C64 from Gideon or any of the C64 Reloaded line by individual Computers Gmbh. One thing that positive contributors to the overall Commodore community is being good neighbors in business as well. Find ways to make positive leads to other Commodore related businesses. There shouldn't be two Commodore communities but one cohesive community. These other offering opportunities are just a little bit of side-offerings that can help make THEC64 team be more accepted by long term Commodore users and businesses who probably have more right to claim on these trademarks than even the so called current owner given how many times the trademarks had been abandoned, we have right to claim the trademarks due to our ongoing use of them when so many had done nothing. As for THEC64 trademarks, who cares. Keep in mind, earn your place among the Commodore community by doing good work. We've done probably more to keep the Commodore IP viable due to our efforts to continue to develop hardware and software for the Commodore and Amiga then THEC64 and virtually any of the holders of the Commodore/Amiga IP since Commodore and maybe ESCOM. Whether THEC64 Team does enough to earn their place in the community of developers and become well-regarded and build relationship throughout the Commodore community, that is still to seen. Relationship isn't about money itself. We're that community that kept this technology alive for all these years. I hope the THEC64 team doesn't forget that because we were the people who made C64 successful in the first place and a number of us continued to keep it alive through our efforts. For what it is worth, there wouldn't have been the C64 DTV (remember Jeri was one of us and we still consider her one of us and it was the community that encouraged her passion that lead to the CommodoreOne, the C64DTV and other works of hers.) It doesn't just happen in a void. We're the community that made the CMD product line because CMD was part of that community. It's not just a community of users. It's also a community of developers/makers. Don't forget to support and connect with the very community. Perhaps the THEC64 Mini itself isn't necessarily something for all C64 users but there maybe reasons it can be used and hacked to put a C64DTV inside it (or Hummer) Make new real C64 keyboard and maybe also reproduction C64 cases as side items that people can buy and use with Keyrah v2 and use with their PC/Mac running emulators. Perhaps, help also make the working with a C64 emulator more authentic experience. A C64 keyboard that plugs into the PC via USB for PCs and Macs and other modern systems running emulators that can work either directly via USB and also a kind that plugs into traditional C64 motherboards. The price is worth it for that experience in my opinion. Don't overproduce, though. Scale with demand. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wombstar Still don't know if they'll be selling joysticks.. ?? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- quatermass In order to make money selling the joystick as an extra would be a good move. You can put me down for a couple of those. Does anyone know if they are pretty much the original Competition pro specs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- tco35 What about paddle connexion, essential for revs or arkanoid ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ReflectedLightEntertainment [4]tco35 You don't need to worry about that. There is no direct analog values coming in from something like the analog thumb sticks used on Microsoft game pads (for example). VICE already supports those game pads and some of the other emulators out there may already support them. On these modern game controllers (pads, joysticks, etc.) with analog sticks, the analog to digital conversion is done inside the controller and it's sent in digitally over the USB connector. Some of the controllers have a higher resolution than that of the POT X and POT Y registers which is 8 bit each. A step in converting from the higher resolution values coming in from some of these pads to the lower 8 bit per axis resolution would be done and then it's injected into the POT X and POT Y registers of the emulated SID chip. With generic xbox/xbox360 and similar PC controllers, the values would be at 8-bit resolution so you probably wouldn't need to worry about it. They may use an API that abstracts that takes care of that stuff and convert them all into 8-bit signed or unsigned integers and then those values would have to be injected into the emulated registers in unsigned integer format. It might not matter too much but it may. This stuff was already done many years ago, IIRC. It's kind of done on the back end of the emulator that you don't see while running the emulator. Basically, you don't need real SID chips or 8bit ADCs inside the computer. If you want to use paddles, you need to use suitable 8-bit ADCs and other ICs as needed to send that data to the computer over USB to use traditional paddles. People in the community could make this for emulator users if they want and that there is a demand. We can make the 9-pin to USB converter with ADCs if needed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Trinket The only peripheral connector that appears to be on there is USB. There's no 9-pin with the analog lines. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ReflectedLightEntertainment You wouldn't necessarily need it with the USB connector because you would have DACs that will convert signals from analog sticks into digital signals like they already do on the PC. I believe they already implemented means of supporting analog joystick signals from pads like the microsoft game pads for Xbox. The values are already converted from the analog sticks to digital values sent over USB. Since the ADCs are likely at a higher resolution than the 8 bit X and Y values. There would be some process of converting those values to 8-bit resolution and then those values would be injected into the POTX and POTY registers according to the format needed. The Z axis of these modern pads would be ignored or unusued. There's no need for ADC chips and Atari style joystick ports. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- tco35 Ok thank you for the great technical explains. Ok for no need SID, but we need that the emulator is able to understand the signal. Will it be the case ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ReflectedLightEntertainment [5]tco35 The emulators already have built-in support for USB joysticks. There is already libraries that does that including the drivers. Part of it is the drivers. Part of it is OS low-level APIs and then you have the emulator's libraries that interacts with underlying OS APIs for accessing drivers for joysticks. Retro Games Ltd. didn't write the emulator or it's underlying operating system by scratch. They didn't do that. They used an already supported OS platform that the emulators already has a compiled binary build for. Rest of the following is a mildly technical: Since it will likely already support standard Microsoft joysticks/game pads and their analog sticks which are normally 8bit per axis resolution (same resolution as the POTX & POTY Lines. It's probably an easy process of taking the 8 bits values from the USB controllers to that which would be recognized by the emulated SID within the C64 emulation. That's already supported by most of the decent C64 emulators. You probably could take a real game paddle, and an adapter that includes the same 8bit ADCs used by Microsoft game controllers and most of the generic USB MS compatible game controllers and use them. The voltage range doesn't really matter. It's 5v and you'll just attenuate from lowest to maximum voltage settings in 256 steps from lowest voltage to highest voltage range. It doesn't need to match the analog range on the C64 going into the SID because it doesn't matter because C64 programs aren't really reading the voltage values but just a digital value from 0 to 255 represented by the lowest volt to the highest voltage. In practical use from the software programming side, as far as we care, it can 0v to 255v in 1v steps but really, it was usually 5v from some value close to zero to a value just slightly over 5v at about .02v increments. This would work on USB as well since the ADC and lowest to highest voltage supported which it then sends digitally at rock solid 5v. An converter adaptor can make it possible to use your real Commodore paddles and convert them digitally in a manner that would be compatible with MS game controller drivers for analog sticks working in the X and Y axis. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- bulldog76 So you could connect any simular USB joystick? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- RetroGamesLtd Most general USB controllers should work fine on THEC64 Mini as a second (or alternative) controller. We have tested using both THEC64 Joystick and alternative USB gamepads and controllers and whilst we can't guarantee 100% compatibility with every controller out there, a lot of effort has gone into trying to ensure that many of them will work with it. Hope that answers your question! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- References Visible links 1. https://community.thec64.com/ 4. https://community.thec64.com/d/32/8 5. https://community.thec64.com/d/32/12