[1]The C64 Community Loading... This site is best viewed in a modern browser with JavaScript enabled. Other titles by current Software Devs used so far. MIK I was having a nose at the ZX Spectrum Vega games list to see what was there and noticed it had other Gremlin Graphics games like Switchblade, Auf Wiedersehen Monty, Impossamole, Krakout, Hero Quest, Super Cars and so on. Would be most welcome if some of these classics could also be added to the carousel in the future seeing as they were allowed to be shared not so long ago! [2];) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- synchromesh [3]MIK Would be most welcome if some of these classics could also be added to the carousel in the future seeing as they were allowed to be shared not so long ago! [4];) Allowed to "share" yes ... However the games are still copyrighted and if they are included with a product that's making hundreds of thousands of pounds then the programmer will want his cut. Its just not all as cut and dry as you think .. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- johnnyhotrocks [5]MIK I dont get threads like this...the c64 team have given you a way to play what ever games you want to so why not take advantage of that fact and do a google search. Yes its a grey area but it up to you and your conscience but the entire life time of the machines software is out there at a click of a button....for free [6]:) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- spannernick1 The programmers who made the games wouldn't get alot for 30+ year old games,what less than a pound per game,I was thinking it was funny them selling TheC64 Mini for £64.99...see 64 in the price and its a C64 and 64 games.. [7]:), so maybe 25p per game.so If they sell a 1000 of them its 25X1000 = £25.000 wow, so 64 games 25p each is = £1.600 per Mini,But they must be getting less maybe 1p per game cause its on £64.99, It wouldn't be a lot the programmers are making from this,that why there is still a market for these things,they sell,and the games are cheap.And Darren Osborne has most of the game copyright from the C64DTV and they might be using Cloanto the get the rest of the games cause of there C64 Forever. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- RetroBiker [8]spannernick1 selling TheC64 Mini for £64.99...see 64 in the price and its a C64 and 64 games The recommended price from Retro Games LTD is £69.99. £64.99 is just the priced decided on by Amazon and Game. Even at £65, that must have a reasonable markup to be worth stocking. You are right, though - the original license holders won't be getting much out of this deal each. Perhaps they realised that and since they are not earning anything on the games any more otherwise, were happy to get anything? At 25p per game, that's £16 per mini to license holders which doesn't sound radical out of the rest of the costs of manufacture, marketing and profit. Every 1,000 minis sold would be £250 to a license holder (assuming a fee per sale). Since some of the license holders have multiple games on the device, that may not be a lot of money, but definitely better than earning nothing on the games. Of course, RGL could have done the same as Commodore did to Microsoft and offered a fixed fee regardless of sales. We may never know. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- MIK [9]johnnyhotrocks There is a point to the madness. Adding stuff to the carousel is handled more professionally and more respectfully. We get a small cover artwork image, a couple of screen grabs, year it was made, who made it, extra basic info related to the game, extra controls that might be mapped to different buttons instead of relying on a keyboard and we also get dedicated slots for state saving. [10];) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- synchromesh The general thinking was Commodore 64 with 64 games included at 64 pounds. OK and 99p so it didn't say £65 ... All the 64's was the point ..Adding more games to the Carousel ruins that ... I don't think there is a need if they get the USB issues sorted for playing your own games -------------------------------------------------------------------------- johnnyhotrocks [11]synchromesh And the C64 team will be ploughing resources into acquiring licences for the games and that takes away from firmware updates and other projects......all they have to do is just let us edit the data for our downloads in someway. The raspberry pi lets you google the info and upload it to memory everything you asked for, this should be the route they go rather than the licence one for games you cant please everybody on. At least the rom route you add the ones you desire and saves all the arguing WHY DIDN'T YOU ADD THIS GAME WHEN YOU ADDED THAT ONE FOR YOUR MAN THERE LOL. Anyway the gremlin back catalogue was bought a few years ago by one of the original owners and he plans to release the classics on mobile phones and has done a few already, so i think nabbing more would cost a bit. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- MIK Guys... With companies like Gremlin Graphics the programmers were paid for their work at the time as they worked for 'the' company directly. Or in the case of Mastertronic they paid a sum for the game if sent in and took ownership that way. So in the case of Gremlin Graphics they own every game they published, the rights ect... Gremlin Graphics do not exist any more but part of that original team who I'm sure were asked are still going and are known today as Sumo Digital. I doubt there is much to be made from each C64mini any way as each retailer will take a big slice of the profits for handling it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [12]MIK Sumo are not Gremlin, individuals are just that and ltd and plc companies something different again. The issue is tracking the rights holders and doing a deal that makes commercial sense, something that can be especially dificult in the case of bankruptsy (most companies in the games industry go bankrupt after one to two generations) and/or have undergone multiple take overs. Gremlin went through multiple changes, from the founding company to the US Gold take over, to a buy-back, to the infogrames years, and that itself became a mind-fuck of re-organisations and studio closures. Also, even talking about the earlier years when matters were more transparent. Gremlin was a developer/publisher, not simply a developer. That means that many games were developed by other companies, but published by and under the Gremlin label. In those cases the rights would likely reside elsewhere. Someone mentioned many rights being re-purchased and that is possible and might make it easier to track down and do a deal. But yea, former developers will almost certainly have rights, like the guys at Magnetic fields - Shaun Southern and Andrew Morris. And all this is just looking at Gremlin. In some cases it might be hard to know who if anyone owns given rights and if money becomes involved, previously unclaimed rights can become disputed. P.S Lucky this is not more complex again. Modern games often have licencing agreements tied to a specific system and/or further complexities with third party licences, especially sports titles. One look at Microsoft/Xbox One's lack of sports games on backwards compatibility shows off that problem. Even licences on music tracks on modern games can be problematic. We're very lucky we can obtain most games ourselves! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Moz333 I was under the impression packages were going to be released to add games to the carousel, say 20 games for £20 or so..you could have a few blocks of 20 games in £20 packages, that you could choose depending on your taste. Weather this would be profitable based on groundwork obtaining licences is debatable. Especially as they are available for free anyway.. Once the usb scenario gets sorted with multiple disk/roms i think additional games to the carousel for cash could be a hard sell. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- MIK You would need a proper shop and some way of locking the files to say the serial number of the machine so they wont run on another. More hassle than it's worth I'm sure. It would of been easier to of had the machine it's self do all this, (if it was online) with the carousel being more a web browser for playing, buying C64 games... Something for another time maybe. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- synchromesh [13]MIK It would of been easier to of had the machine it's self do all this, (if it was online) with the carousel being more a web browser Oh god no ,,, That sounds exactly like the " Spectrum Remade " A glorified USB Keyboard with Bluetooth .. There's no internet anyway as you say so I cant see it happening anytime soon . -------------------------------------------------------------------------- MIK [14]synchromesh No, think more along the lines of PSN & XBL as the C64 mini is a dedicated machine. The XBOX1 & PS4's front ends are glorified web browsers. But yeah. it wont happen with the 64mini so nothing to worry about. [15]:) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jammet You can still run a shop of sorts in a windows application, and install whatever you need on the USB storage device you plug into the C64. Kind of like the store you get if you install Raspbian on a Raspberry Pi. Companies like Protovision could sell their games directly on this. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- RetroBiker Theoretically, the Mini could support a USB ethernet driver... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- MIK [16]oldskool Sumo are not Gremlin I never said Sumo was Gremlin. Nice one as it saved me from reading the wall of text that came with it! [17]😆 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- spannernick1 [18]oldskool One game comes to mind Turrican on the c64 and Amiga ,Now that would have a lot of copyright,and the Music...wow,I love the music,the C64 music I like too but I get goosebumps listening to the Amiga version,but thats whats it all about,Stomlord is one of them too I get goosebumps listening too,Amiga or C64 there the same and sound the same,well same guy made the music,Jeroen Tel and Chris Huelsbeck,Love there music. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [19]MIK I'm going to back away from saying anything further on these forums that relates to knowledge of the industry. There is absolutely no point and nothing in it for me. Any time I say anything that pertains to knowledge and/or expertise I am ridiculed for it. P.S I used to work for Gremlin as a games designer. I'm out! From now on in I speak about games I like and absolutely fuck all else. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [20]oldskool I also worked as a senior computer software producer in the industry on the publishing side and dealt with licensing agreements. But yea... I'm done. Chat about games I like and nowt else - no point in ananything else. I can't be arsed dealing with chippy BS from people who have a problem with reality being detailed for them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parcival [21]@oldskool Dude, chill. It's just a forum. Everyone has their opinion about everything. That's just the way it is. There is absolutely no need to get wound up. Everyone needs to just accept on this forum that my 80's 8-bit knowledge is better than everyone else's and we can all get along great...... [22]:grin: [23]:grin: [24]:grin: [25]:grin: (runs for cover over hail of bullets, lasers and nukes) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [26]Parcival I worked at Gremlin through a load of the restructuring. I know how licensing works and I know about the complexities of development and publishing relationships having worked on both sides of the fence and on such agreements. Some people can't be told anything without taking offence - so no point. P.S Gremlin was not one company or developer. I've had the same crap talking to people about Psygnosis who never understood the same. Waste of time. Every post I make from now on in is just - I like this or that - nowt else. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- [27]Next Page » References Visible links 1. https://community.thec64.com/ 3. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/1 5. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/1 8. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/3 9. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/5 11. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/6 12. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/8 13. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/11 14. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/12 16. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/16 18. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/16 19. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/17 20. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/19 21. https://community.thec64.com/u/oldskool 26. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/20 27. https://community.thec64.com/d/278?page=2&id=278-other-titles-by-current-software-devs-used-so-far [1]The C64 Community Loading... This site is best viewed in a modern browser with JavaScript enabled. Other titles by current Software Devs used so far. oldskool [2]oldskool I also worked as a senior computer software producer in the industry on the publishing side and dealt with licensing agreements. But yea... I'm done. Chat about games I like and nowt else - no point in ananything else. I can't be arsed dealing with chippy BS from people who have a problem with reality being detailed for them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [3]Parcival I worked at Gremlin through a load of the restructuring. I know how licensing works and I know about the complexities of development and publishing relationships having worked on both sides of the fence and on such agreements. Some people can't be told anything without taking offence - so no point. P.S Gremlin was not one company or developer. I've had the same crap talking to people about Psygnosis who never understood the same. Waste of time. Every post I make from now on in is just - I like this or that - nowt else. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- saramakos [4]oldskool I'm really sorry to hear it. I have been enjoying reading these insights from within the industry. I always knew software rights were at best a tangled mess, at worst an ivy patch over a fertiliser pile but it is always good reading information from the inside. If you change your mind know you'll have at least one interested audience member. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- PantherUK [5]oldskool I've found your posts interesting too mate... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parcival [6]@oldskool PM sent. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Goclastninja Yes ive also found your posts and perspective very interesting,please dont let a few detractors discourage you,hope you will continue to post interesting information. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- johnnyhotrocks The guy i mentioned who bought the Gremlin back catalogue was called Ian Stewart. heres a wee interview he gave and talking about his plans for the Gremlin stuff he now owns [7]:) [8]http://www.retrogamesmaster.co.uk/gremlin-founder-ian-stewart/ Above link separate interview different from video [9]:) [10]IFrame -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [11]johnnyhotrocks Good post. The problems remain numerous. 'some of the catelogue'. Also it is a case of rinse and repeat with companies that no longer exist, one after another - Ocean, Us Gold etc etc. Almost no company from that time exists anymore. I can only think of Codemasters and Rare off the top of my head, maybe Team 17. But every single other company you can think of pretty much went bankrupt once they made enough money and left the shell ltd/plc status to die. Bankrupts, takes-overs, re-orgnisations etc and further complications. Then you have the fact that some have requested a PSN-like store front, that's a huge ask. Is it economically viable for Retro to do the work at all - to scour for further IP rights? It might be in some limited sense for where some rights sit easier like they appear to do here with Ian. It might be a bit like beach combing to find what game rights can be clearly delineated - time consuming with little pay off. Good post anyway and who knows - a small positive in a soupy mess of a situation. I still think the key is that Retro have enabled us to go and get the games ourselves - they didn't have to do that at all, other retro mini systems don't. If Retro can get the USB firmware updated I think they will have nailed it for the majority of us. Maybe a game pack or two is possible though, who knows? I am now well and truly out and am just sticking to conversations about games. Again good post and good link re video. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- [12]« Previous Page References Visible links 1. https://community.thec64.com/ 2. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/19 3. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/20 4. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/22 5. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/22 6. https://community.thec64.com/u/oldskool 8. http://www.retrogamesmaster.co.uk/gremlin-founder-ian-stewart/ 10. https://www.youtube.com/embed/QJQsl__DFh0 11. https://community.thec64.com/d/278/27 12. https://community.thec64.com/d/278?page=1&id=278-other-titles-by-current-software-devs-used-so-far