[1]The C64 Community Loading... This site is best viewed in a modern browser with JavaScript enabled. Firmware/USB question oldskool If the requirement for 8 buttons on usb devices was removed and the extra UI functions that are performed on the Joystick were added to the virtual Keyboard - would that give us an acceptable work-around? Or put another way: IF that keyboard functionality was added and IF the 8 button check was removed - would many regular USB devices simply work? IF Retro do not wish for the UI to work this way, because of reservations relating to control of the UI, or because the adding of additional buttons from joystick to virtual keyboard is too much work at this time in terms of programming and alteration to the on-screen keyboard etc. Could the check for 8 buttons be dropped from one connected device - IF two devices are connected? That way the UI could be controlled by the default joystick and the user could use an additional preferred USB device as their game controller. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- RetroBiker This all sounds like a great idea. I'd recommend filling i the contact form on the website with the details, if you haven't already, and see what they say... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- MIK I agree with what has been said, I mean we have F9-F12 on a PC keyboard and a number of other keys not used. I don't have the machine handy at the moment but I'm sure the arrow keys have been remap so they work like a Plus/4 when using the PC ones! The only problem is is that the C64mini is being presented as if it is a C64DTV, an out of the box plug'n play and that's it. There was no proper manual in the box to tell you anything other than what came with it. There was no mention you can play games off memory stick and there may of been no word about USB keyboards. As is out of the box is what they are pushing and it's only here, word of mouth, video's and other forms you find out it does a whole lot more. You get the sense this "more" is what they want to avoid as much as possible. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- RetroBiker [2]MIK it's only here, word of mouth, video's and other forms you find out it does a whole lot more. You get the sense this "more" is what they want to avoid as much as possible. All that "more" stuff is fully documented in the User Guide and on the website. There's loads of help and info there about it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [3]MIK I think Retro have to keep it simple as an off the shelf product as their primary sale or way of pushing the device MIK. If you look at the way the carousal and UI look and the fact that they have followed in the footsteps of the NES and Snes mini - I think that is a blueprint they have followed and success they are trying to mimic. I think they've done a great job in following that blueprint, right down to the quality of the design of the case/miniC64 and the superb packaging (joystick aside). They have really succeeded in their presentation and that's no small feat. So I think they have gone about this in exactly the right way and I certainly don't think they could have complicated the initial product release with more infomation regarding advance use - I think that would have diluted the vision for the mass market. They need to make this a success and to do that they have to make money. The stuff beyond, all the additional things like basic and added games for us enthusiasts - in some sense that can be a bit of a sticky wicket and a risk akin to feature creep in development terms. In some sense they are going the extra mile, so I honestly think the glass is half full when it comes to all the added stuff. I think they mean well and to add things for us, which in all honesty might not add a lot to their overall sales - even if it pleases us lot as hardcore old timers. If they sell a lot of units and do well - more chance that we get to use the website here, form a community and get additional functionality down the line. Everyone sees things a different way of course. Having been in games development and in publishing myself I know how it can be the other side of the fence too and can see both sides. What I have added here, mentioned. There may well be more additional difficulties behind such questions/requests that they can see - that make this less than straightforward. I worked as a designer with programmers on implementing new UI and control methods in games - but we had an enormous team of people/resources in terms of programmers/artists and we were working in C++ and not emulation. There may be a layer of difficulty here that I am not aware of, or people/resources thin on the ground and allocated elsewhere. I only raised the points I did as by way of suggestive question: It would be nice if [4]:) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- MIK [5]RetroBiker I covered that just in different words... One more time, as is off the shelf they don't really want you to know about the "more" unless you follow the white rabbit. [6];) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- MIK [7]oldskool Yeah I'm with you again and fully understand why they have kept the extra's aside for the enthusiast, and like all of us here I'm glad it does the extra's or else they may not of had a sale. The machine it's self and presentation is spot on and is better than I was expecting. A useful thing to have along side your real machines as well! Just a shame the stick internal design lets it down in a major way. It really does have the potential to move people away from emulating on other computers ect, it's more dedicated for that one purpose and everyone has the same unlike PC hardware. If only they could support more USB sticks/pads and make better use of a PC keyboard.,, -------------------------------------------------------------------------- adgloride In theory the joystick only requires two buttons. One for fire and the other to get the menu up. All the others for space, enter etc.. could just be added to the onscreen keyboard. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [8]adgloride If the whole UI could be covered by the keyboard - that might allow for adaptors and original joysticks to be used. Of course that would mean some games might also require an attached keyboard for the spacebar etc - but... Who knows. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jammet True enough, I would like to be able to navigate the carousel with the cursor keys. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- rogersyd I am curious to understand where the custom keymapings are taking place. Is there an INI file or something similar paired with each d64 file that specifies these settings? Or are the included PRGs recompiled with custom code to use specific buttons? I am not familiar with many of these included games, but i would image that most of these games used different keyboard inputs. I was Just curious if it would be possible to modify the basic rom to map the extra joystick buttons to useful macros (i.e. dir and * load commands). And we would need to know how this is done if we are going to add other games to her down the line. Anyone know how vice works? I know at least with C64 Forever (also from Cloanto) disk images are stored in an RP9 file, which appears to be just a ZIP file. Inside each RP9 are the adf files, a txt file (labeled help), a xml (presumably game specific prefs), and a png. So my guess is the mini does something similar. This still wouldn't explain how the "insert disk 2" stuff is hidden from view... Wouldn't that at least have to be updated in the assembly code of each game? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- References Visible links 1. https://community.thec64.com/ 2. https://community.thec64.com/d/249/3 3. https://community.thec64.com/d/249/3 5. https://community.thec64.com/d/249/4 7. https://community.thec64.com/d/249/6 8. https://community.thec64.com/d/249/7