[1]The C64 Community Loading... This site is best viewed in a modern browser with JavaScript enabled. Commodore Emulators available..... ReflectedLightEntertainment VICE: homepage: [2]http://vice-emu.sourceforge.net/index.html [3]http://vice-emu.sourceforge.net/index.html#download Cloanto C64 Forever: [4]https://www.c64forever.com/ Price: $9.95 (as of 9/29/2017) There are many more emulators as well. They can be added in follow up posts. Lets not forget that there are numerous websites for Commodore 64 games, demos, etc. CSDb ( Commodore Scene Database): ---- is a great repository of demos and games.... many made by various members of the great Commodore demo sceners for the past 30+ years and still doing so today. [5]http://csdb.dk/ Gamebase 64: [6]http://www.gamebase64.com/ Lets not forget there are some forums: CSDb forum (at link above) - ideally suited for those with more technical/programming background and experienced sceners but even new people have to begin and new sceners are welcomed. Lemon64.com [7]http://www.lemon64.com Melon64.com [8]http://melon64.com CBM8Bit: [9]https://cbm8bit.com/ Commodore.ca: [10]http://www.commodore.ca/forum/ Commodore 128.com [11]http://c128.com/ Commodore Plus/4 World: [12]http://www.plus4world.com/ There are many more that can be added in follow up posts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ReflectedLightEntertainment Look guys, there are the above noted resources. This would in ways be applicable to THEC64 as it would be for any computer running a C64 or even the original C64. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- rldipaolo Of course C64 emulators have been available for a very long time - I doubt that users here are ignorant of that fact. So what's the point? Isn't this forum about the C64 Mini? If somebody wants an emulator great, but that isn't what this forum is about. There are those, like myself who know very well about emulators (and I've written an emulator myself as well) but have a preference for real hardware - and the C64 Mini is for those who have that preference. Besides, it appears that the C64 Mini will be much easier to use than setting up and running an emulator as well as not requiring a PC to run - which appeals to many persons, even to myself who could easily set up and run an emulator if that's what I was interested in. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ReflectedLightEntertainment [13]rldipaolo You're basically buying a computer roughly equivalent of a smart phone or tablet running on an ARM based SoC chip running a C64 emulator. This original post is more than just emulators. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- rldipaolo You're basically buying a computer roughly equivalent of a smart phone or tablet running on an ARM based SoC chip running a C64 emulator.<< Yes, and so what? I don't care - I'll still buy a C64 Mini to go along with my half dozen real C64s, my C128s, my VIC20s, and my PET 2001s - and I suspect that most others interested in the C64 Mini don't care about C64 emulators either. We don't see this product from your point of view. Most people aren't going to give a hoot what's inside the box - or about C64 emulators - they're just looking for a fun toy so why not let them have it in peace and stop trying to push the emulator subject here on this website? What axe are you trying to grind? I just don't get why you feel a need to do so. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ReflectedLightEntertainment [14]rldipaolo What do you think you are buying? What do you think they are buying? It is just a C64 emulator running on an ARM based computer with the less computing power than my tablet with an nVidia Tegra 4. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- rldipaolo [15]ReflectedLightEntertainment You are like a broken record. You just keep saying the same thing over and over again as if the large number of words you write into this forum will finally convince me to think your way. Sorry, but it isn't going to work. I've got a mind of my own and even though I understand full well what you are saying the fact remains that I simply just don't care. Why can't you get that through your head? Is it impossible for you to understand that others may not share your viewpoint or way of thinking?!?!?!? I don't give a rat's butt what C64 emulators do or don't exist, I don't care in the least if that's what is inside the C64 Mini - or not. I don't prefer emulators, I prefer nicely packaged hardware - and obviously so do a good amount of other people. And you still didn't answer my very pointed question.... What axe are you trying to grind here?!?!?!? Do you have the ability and courtesy to answer that question so that we can understand the motive behind your rants? Are you on this forum simply to put down the concept of the C64 Mini and blast your self-serving opinion throughout this forum? If I'm going to throw away my money, as you claim, what's it to you?!?!?!? It's my money and I'll do what I want to do with it. You are so stuck in your own mindset that you just don't get it. Maybe what are priorities to you, what things are important to you, simply aren't important to other people - did you ever consider that or are you one of those who must believe themselves to always be right, having the highest and best opinion beyond all others??? They've got a word for posters like you.... trolls. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ReflectedLightEntertainment For example, if I wanted to play C64 games and wasn't part of actively collecting Commodore computers and using them, I would likely want to spend the least amount of money I can to achieve those goals. It wouldn't be worth it to me to invest in hard earned money for an occassional usage. If there wasn't any other option to a C64 emulation then maybe I would be it because it would be my least expensive option. Remember, the majority of the population that might be interesting in playing a C64 game, it isn't something they are seeking as a regular part of their life. They are only doing this for the occassional playing. What's less expensive? Using the computer you already own and download a free C64 emulator (or pay up to $20 + s&h for C64 Forever from Cloanto) or Pay $70 + s&h. What is it for you? Is it just an expensive ornament to you? If that was the case, they can just sell the case molding and leave it at that for significantly less. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pete I am absolutely going to buy this unit. I already have the emulators. But I am absolutely going to buy this. Why? Because it is officially licensed and legal. I want to stream some C64 stuff but I've felt bad doing so. Twitch does not support the streaming of illegally obtained games. I have done in the past but I have been streaming effectively pirated games. It is hard to find original copies of games so I can buy them and legally stream them. I want to support the authors of those games, no matter how long ago they were written. Guys like Jeff Minter don't mind their stuff being played. But for the other games it is a legal gray area. I am happy this is coming out because the games are not pirated, they are legal and licensed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Trinket [16]Pete I wonder how many of these licensing terms are actually with the original authors, not just with some publisher who happens to have these crusty old rights sitting in their IP portfolio from some acquisition. That's the problem with projects like this. The C64 is "commercially dead," though hardware and software support are still very alive in the user base. Preservationists have broken down every little detail with imaging and emulating everything around the 64. The users keep pushing things forward, while the original copyrights are moot. Now all of a sudden, people want to make money off this nostalgia and go around seeing which IP holders are still active. Many of these rights have shuffled around so many hands (especially the C= IP) that there's no moral sense of rewarding the original creators. Generally speaking, it's mostly just corporate squatters that are trolling for payments for random IP caches they've acquired. If this isn't a fixed games platform and does allow you to load modern stuff on there, then it starts to conflict with those IP rights that have been resuscitated. If Publisher A licensed game B to TheC64, and now people are side-loading games F, G, and H which Publisher A also owns, they might not be too happy. Once the common user case has shifted away from the original ownership into preservation, reverse engineering, and unauthorized 3rd party support, trying to bring back official IP can cause a lot of problems. Instead of just letting sleeping dogs lie, and letting the unfettered creativity and exploration of the post-commercial community continue, it now is much more legally charged. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ReflectedLightEntertainment [17]rldipaolo You're buying because of the C64 look alike case. Is that why you are SO excited about this? There was a company that made a C64 look alike computer that ran C64 via emulation, its called the C64x. I'd wait for the full-size case, because it might actually be a little more usable just for the case and keyboard. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ReflectedLightEntertainment [18]Trinket Most of those companies were bought up by the surviving companies today and were added up to their IP portfolios. As for the original patents, they are expired so it's not legally protected by any measure. The copyrights are somewhat a stickler and that's currently held by Cloanto from what I heard but that is still a big IF in the legal sense because there are potential holes in the transfers of hands so to speak. Lack of a complete chain of asset transfers makes it dubious. That's another issue altogether. You brought up some interesting points. There are works by companies that are defunct but were owned by their proprietor(s) and those people may still be around. Those assets are theirs and then they may complain. Those assets can even be held by estates or the beneficiaries which may complain. Copyrighted stuff can get really ugly. That's obviously not the concern of purchasers who would almost certainly never be named in the lawsuits. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- WeZzy Hey [19]@ReflectedLightEntertainment do you know of any emulators that have been known for years and I could definitely use to run C64 software on...? [20]:joy: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ReflectedLightEntertainment [21]WeZzy Look at the original post of this thread. I mentioned VICE/WinVICE and thethen there is Cloanto's C64Forever which is based on VICE. There is also additional emulators out there such as Frodo. You can run C64 software but likely will have to be in a disk image format such as D64. The original disks will take a device such as ZoomFloppy so you can use a real 1541 disk drive and floppy disks. The only emulator I know of that supports ZoomFloppy is VICE/WinVICE. They support the OpenCBM for ZoomFloppy driver that would need to be installed. The easiest deal is just download a D64 copy of your games and run it from the emulators and preserve your physical disk(s). This is a good start. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pete Well, the main licensing that I am interested in is the Hewson Consultants IP. All the original Hewson Consultants games are on there - Gribbly's Day Out, Paradroid, Uridium. Hewson Consultants is still around so I imagine it is a straight licensing deal with a relatively small company that still exists. Other IP's may have been swallowed up by various acquisitions and probably now are part of the EA's / Ubisofts of this world, so difficult and expensive to license. Chances of being able to license a game like Ghostbusters from back in the day - zero!! Too many licensing hurdles. Legal is what I like though, if I wanted to play these games legally and stream it is still pretty easy to buy C64's and genuine software these days. Interesting side thought about this emulation is that the game images themselves are probably tiny on the device, the menu system for loading games and the JPG images displayed in it are probably larger than the actual game code. An individual JPG can easily be > 64 kb. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ReflectedLightEntertainment [22]Pete The Hewson Consultants group is back with original founder so the permission is probably easily obtained. Ideally, it is great to have the full legal but as a general practice, if you own an original copy on disk, having a disk image of the game to play on the emulator is unlikely to result in you being a target of a lawsuit. They won't be targeting you because you would not represent a source for money because lawsuits are generally about money. The lawyers aren't after those with no money. There is no point in wasting money suing someone with no hope of financial restitution. They are usually interested in those selling illegal copies and distributing illegal copies. If you have an original factory produced copy of a game, having a D64 or other disk image copy of the game will not result in you being a likely target because suing people like you would be pointless and more detrimental. As a software developer, I wouldn't worry about people like you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pete Looked up some old games to see who owns the licenses now - they are big. Mastertronic -> all IP now owned by Sega Imagine -> became part of Ocean -> now all IP owned by Atari Sensible Software (inc. Wizball my fave) -> now all IP owned by large studio Codemasters Firebird (Thrust) -> now owned by British Telecom. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ReflectedLightEntertainment [23]Pete Firebird always was owned by British Telecom. It was a label through a subsidiary of theirs, IIRC. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- WeZzy [24]ReflectedLightEntertainment ah, I thought the smiley in combination with your emulator rant on pretty much every topic on this forum would have given away the sarcasm of my reply. Guess not... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ReflectedLightEntertainment [25]synchromesh Look forward to that. I mentioned it because I did get a VIC-Slim from them. From previous experience, I caution getting prematurely over excited about sales. I don't mind it being successful in a manner that also respects the original C64 as well as the original Commodore hardware and ongoing development for it. If people want the THEC64 Mini, go right ahead. Just keep in mind it is an ARM based computer running a C64 emulator. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pete [26]ReflectedLightEntertainment My friend, I couldn't give a rats clacker about being caught. For me it is about ethics. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ReflectedLightEntertainment [27]Pete Ethics is one of those words that is very subject to interpretation and values. If you elaborate what you mean by ethics so the value system is understood would be helpful as my interpretation and yours maybe different in areas. IOW, I'm offering an opportunity to elaborate what you mean vs. jumping to my own interpretation. Aside from that, I can generally agree that is it about ethics. This can be a deep subject for sure. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- [28]Next Page » References Visible links 1. https://community.thec64.com/ 2. http://vice-emu.sourceforge.net/index.html 3. http://vice-emu.sourceforge.net/index.html#download 4. https://www.c64forever.com/ 5. http://csdb.dk/ 6. http://www.gamebase64.com/ 7. http://www.lemon64.com/ 8. http://melon64.com/ 9. https://cbm8bit.com/ 10. http://www.commodore.ca/forum/ 11. http://c128.com/ 12. http://www.plus4world.com/ 13. https://community.thec64.com/d/14/3 14. https://community.thec64.com/d/14/5 15. https://community.thec64.com/d/14/6 16. https://community.thec64.com/d/14/8 17. https://community.thec64.com/d/14/9 18. https://community.thec64.com/d/14/10 19. https://community.thec64.com/u/ReflectedLightEntertainment 21. https://community.thec64.com/d/14/13 22. https://community.thec64.com/d/14/15 23. https://community.thec64.com/d/14/16 24. https://community.thec64.com/d/14/17 25. https://community.thec64.com/d/14/14 26. https://community.thec64.com/d/14/19 27. https://community.thec64.com/d/14/21 28. https://community.thec64.com/d/14?page=2&id=14-commodore-emulators-available [1]The C64 Community Loading... This site is best viewed in a modern browser with JavaScript enabled. Commodore Emulators available..... ReflectedLightEntertainment [2]Pete Ethics is one of those words that is very subject to interpretation and values. If you elaborate what you mean by ethics so the value system is understood would be helpful as my interpretation and yours maybe different in areas. IOW, I'm offering an opportunity to elaborate what you mean vs. jumping to my own interpretation. Aside from that, I can generally agree that is it about ethics. This can be a deep subject for sure. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- WeZzy [3]ReflectedLightEntertainment ah, I thought the smiley in combination with your emulator rant on pretty much every topic on this forum would have given away the sarcasm of my reply. Guess not... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ReflectedLightEntertainment [4]WeZzy Didn't recognize the smiley as such. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- [5]« Previous Page References Visible links 1. https://community.thec64.com/ 2. https://community.thec64.com/d/14/21 3. https://community.thec64.com/d/14/17 4. https://community.thec64.com/d/14/23 5. https://community.thec64.com/d/14?page=1&id=14-commodore-emulators-available