[1]The C64 Community Loading... This site is best viewed in a modern browser with JavaScript enabled. Low quality joystick bossakungen The joystick seems to be very imprecise and feels like a piece of plastic junk imo. The joystick is very important as most of these games are pretty hard and require good precision. I tried a few games, where it was most obvious was Paradroid when you are competing vs other robots, it is very hard to place it in the correct location, it usually jumps 2 places instead of one. I cannot recommend to buy the mini with this joystick. I used to have this one and you cannot compare them [2]joystick Any one else that have issues with the joystick? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ice00 I just test now it with Hunter's Moon, a game I play a lot into the C64 with my joystick (it was the original supply with the Commodore in Italy). The first impression is that is very hard to use it: it not seems to be like a digital joystick (you press, you go: on/off), but an analog joystick that are "wrong calibrated" (you press, you did not go, then go for a while). Maybe I have to use it more for compensate to this behavior and take the right feeling to it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [3]ice00 - I think what you are describing might well be lag, rather than the Joystick. Try the Joystick out on PC emulation and see if you get the same problem. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- sid128 Very happy to have received my mini, which is definitely very cool, but I must admit that I tend to agree regarding the joystick. Played Giana Sisters and when making these long arch-like jumps it was difficult to maintain the control throughout the jump and I therefore lost the precision in the jump. I wonder if this can be improved through future firmware updates or if it resides in the joystick itself. (Maybe it is just me being used to ‘the arcade’ joystick) Anybody knows if you can plug in another controller e.g. NES usb? (As I don’t have one (yet), I have not been able to try it...) In general great work by the C64mini team! Fantastic product and great initiative. Thanks!! [4]:) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- spinal Have you tried a different joystick at all? It sounds to me that it is more of a software issue than a hardware issue. USB game controllers don't always work digitally on a software level. As a test, plug it into your PC and see how it reacts? [edit] According to a review, the latency is with all games and seems to be nothing to do with the joystick, but the actual console itself. Personally I think it will have something to do with up-scaling the image to hdmi, maybe setting lowest image quality settings might help? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- doc I just received my c64 mini and I'm having exactly the same issues with the joystick. Most of the games require a "pixel-perfect" control, but the joystick is far from precise. It's too bad because I really want to like the mini, but the joystick makes most games unplayable [5]:( I also tried to connect my speedlink competition pro usb joystick to the unit, but it was not recognized. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ice00 Just played with Steel Ranger and joystick usage is lot better that on Hunter's Moon. What is missing (or I have not find until now) is the ability to configure the two triangle button to be mapped to two physical C64 keys so I can change army while playing -------------------------------------------------------------------------- LaLa Yep, I think the problem is most likely not with the joystick hardware itself, but with the processing delay in the firmware. AFAIK, this is essentially a Linux OS on an SoC running a C64 emulator, so there are several layers of software involved from button click to C64 I/O emulation. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- spinal My opinion is that it is probably the video output being upscaled, that's what the lag usually is on PC emulators. The best fix would be to set the physical screen resolution as low as possible to reduce processing time, but I don't think we have that as an option. The only other option, is to check your TV settings for something similar to 'game mode' which will remove most of the image processing your TV does, which might speed things up a little. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Killercrab [6]spinal- the lag on my tv was terrible, however use of the game mode has sorted this completely. Mine is a fairly new Samsung curved tv -------------------------------------------------------------------------- walnutwhip yeah the joystick on this thing is utter rubbish. its stiff and imprecise. makes playing some games a real chore, others far more difficult than the real thing and some nigh on impossible because of the precise movement needed. shouldnt have to look on amazon for an alternative, for a device that costs £64.99 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- naivri Yeah, the joystick/input lag makes this unplayable Considering a refund with amazon -------------------------------------------------------------------------- trolliewallied The joystick works ok for me but takes some getting used to. I used to like Bounder a lot back in the day, and it certainly works well with this, although I'm not as good at this game as I used to be. I love the retro look of the joystick. However, I remember thinking the best ones at the time of the original C64 was the Quickshot (black and red gripped one with a trigger fire button and one at the top of the stick), and also a moulded hand held one with black and red stripes.... now these would be cool! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- FineLerv [7]trolliewallied Quick Shot! Yes! After a Google search that seems to be exactly the one I had! Good memories. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Goclastninja Man them quickshots sucked tramps balls the zipstick wasn't bad -------------------------------------------------------------------------- bossakungen [8]Killercrab That actually solved it, thank you! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- synchromesh LOL ... The quickshot had lag for me back then [9]:) Horrible leaf contacts that seemed to lose it after a few weeks -------------------------------------------------------------------------- bossakungen So to clarify, I have a new Samsung TV and when setting this to Game mode as suggested by Killercrab and spinal, the lag has gone away, now the games are playable again [10]:) still too much plastic feeling for the joystick though. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- phynes1 I don't like the joystick. Can you start a poll on this forum to see what suits people best? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- synchromesh My problem is I seem to keep accidently catching the read triangle buttons with my hand and it seems to cause some really weird control issues .. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- spannernick1 [11]synchromesh What are they for...?? all I can see is for the virtual keyboard,Take the joystick apart and remove the rubber pads underneath them and then that will stop them working and accidently touching them,a really stupid place to have buttons anyway,I thnk Retro Game LTD should of gone the way Windows 10 is made where you have your say of what you want in it and able to test it with the Insider Program.At the end of the day it's our computer they are making for us,not for them.But they are here to make money out of it,and as much as possible. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- spannernick1 I think the C64DTV joystick is better,it don't go up when you want to move left or right,Will be trying my USB SNES and Sega Saturn controllers today on it and I'm going to do a teardown video of it today too. I guess the screws are under the feet on TheC64 Mini,and the Joystick too.so should be interesting and do you think it's worth £64.99..???? On eBay its £105.99...WHAT...rip off -------------------------------------------------------------------------- [12]Next Page » References Visible links 1. https://community.thec64.com/ 3. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/2 6. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/8 7. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/11 8. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/14 11. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/19 12. https://community.thec64.com/d/109?page=2&id=109-low-quality-joystick [1]The C64 Community Loading... This site is best viewed in a modern browser with JavaScript enabled. Low quality joystick spannernick1 [2]synchromesh What are they for...?? all I can see is for the virtual keyboard,Take the joystick apart and remove the rubber pads underneath them and then that will stop them working and accidently touching them,a really stupid place to have buttons anyway,I thnk Retro Game LTD should of gone the way Windows 10 is made where you have your say of what you want in it and able to test it with the Insider Program.At the end of the day it's our computer they are making for us,not for them.But they are here to make money out of it,and as much as possible. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Casper I think the joystick is alright although it feels a bit clunky. Reminds me of the joysticks that came with the Atari VCS 2600: now those really were painful. I used to play with a Suzo Arcade joystick, I don't think anything can beat those. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- spinal I opened up the joystick and yeah, it's terrible. There is no pivot point o the joystick, so it's able to press all 4 directions at once. That is very bad practice. Also, in my opinion, there isn't anywhere near enough movement in either direction. If I can figure out how to get an arduino based joystick to detect, my DIY arcade stick will be my goto device. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chickje Joystick is horrible! Problem is we're stuck with it, cause I can't get another stick to work with the thing. Fingers crossed for a future firmware! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nervousnick It's almost impossible to play games like paradroid or summer games with this joystick...i don't know if it's the joystick or the software, but it's unplayable!!! Also i loaded the pitfall2 rom but i cannot play because the game requires the joystick in port1 and not port2.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- johnnyhotrocks adding my voice to the joystick sucks big time opinion. it looks great but that actual directional stick is one peice of junk. it acts like you bought it from poundland [3]:( need precision forget it, need a diagonal again hit or miss. i cant phantom why the team went with such a poor quality controller when the machine seems good quality and had a bit of effort put into it.....but the controller feels and plays like it was made by a non gamer who knows nothing about how one should actually work and all they had to go on was a look of a retro controller from photographs. What makes it worse is that so far a lot of people are struggling to get an other usb pad / stick to work. Should have been a dead cert for the xbox 360 usb pads but nope. hopefully updates sort this out. I dont know about you lot but would have rather they delayed the machine a tad longer to sort out the controller or raised the price and issued a decent high quality controller. and unplug the controller to use a keyboard or usb stick and it resets the machine back to the main menu. (had a usb in one port, wanted to use the keyboard to type out the commands and removed the joystick and instantly reset to main menu) NOT COOL. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chickje [4]johnnyhotrocks Sounds like a power issue! Try a more powerful adapter anything over 2A Solved all of my problems! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bronski I had reservations about the joystick long before release, even cancelled my pre order. Then had a change of heart and bought one. Can’t tell you how disappointed I am. The joystick is a complete mess / fail. I was going to wait until the next firmware update to decided if I was going to keep the c64 mini but have decided the joystick will always be what it is, crap. Between the joystick and the lagging, it’s boxed up ready to go back to amazon. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [5]Bronski please direct message retro games before you do this to convince them to look into this. My c64 mini doesn't arrive till Tuesday and this joystick and game delay is worrying me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- johnnyhotrocks [6]W12MODS lag can be fixed, but the crappyness of the joystick build can not, but if they get more usb pad/controllers to work that wont be an issue and you can use a controller of your choice. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bronski [7]W12MODS I would be amazed if retro aren’t aware of peoples dissatisfaction with the joystick, they clearly cheaped out on it and it shows. It’s really hard to control games with it, and next to useless on others. How this wasn’t picked up on trials is beyond me, going by the end product, I can only assume any joystick concerns were clearly ignored. The lagging is hit and miss for people, some say it’s issues with their tv, some say it’s the joystick, some say it’s the USB port, some say it’s not using a powerfull enough power surply, who knows. All I know is I shouldn’t have to trouble shoot a brand new device. My pi 3 running a Commodore 64 emulator has no problems, so can’t understand why a dedicated device has so many issues. Don’t let other people’s issues subtract from your own, wait till you get yours on Tuesday, you may and I hope you do, find yours to be perfect. Retro are on the forum but seem selective as to what they respond to, I’d rather send it back and get my £65 quid back, if they get enough returns, hopefully that might force them into addressing people’s concerns. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [8]johnnyhotrocks it can be fixed if we all complain and get a decent free joystick replacement. I didn't back the original release and didn't get my mini free I and you paid for it and deserve better even I would have made it micro switch. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- synchromesh [9]W12MODS I didn't back the original release and didn't get my mini free I and you paid for it and deserve better Hey hold on there ... I backed and got a free one yes and also bought one from game .. Don't assume we all got them for free and it doesn't matter to us .. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [10]synchromesh that did sound wrong and I apologise -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [11]Bronski what annoys me is I have had people say they have had vice and frodo 64 run perfect on Android with touch screen controls how difficult can it be to better that? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parcival [12]Bronski What is there to troubleshoot? It tells you what kind of PSU you need. I think people are just looking at the microUSB port and plugging anything in. It says clearly on the bottom of the device what you need to power it. You are comparing two totally different kinds of hardware to each other and expect them to behave the same - perhaps I should moan that my Xbox One X won't be powered by the same PSU as my PS4 Pro? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- synchromesh [13]W12MODS that did sound wrong and I apologise Hey No worries mate and I appreciate the response .. I agree and I think its pretty clear the joystick is as much use as a spud with a fork in it [14]:) Its reported everywhere so sales will be hit no doubt and there going to have to sort something .. Even so I'm happy and love the Mini .. Hopefully firmware upgrades will at least give better compatibility to our favorite controllers at least as a short term fix -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parcival I must be in the minority as the joystick (although cheap quality) is working fine for me. Are people holding it by the top end? I have my hand resting close the the base of the stick and click it around from there. It works just fine for me (BTW I am not a developer of the hardware just sticking up for it - I really am having no real issues using it). Regards lag, I think that may be due to people not using a more powerful PSU. I find that you need a proper PSU with enough voltage (5A 2V) to power the thing with a USB stick or keyboard. Sometimes using the USB port on the side of the TV is not giving enough umph. That should sort the lag out along with putting the TV into 'Game' mode. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bronski [15]Parcival What is there to troubleshoot? Are you suffering the same delay issues as the c64? Have you been following the forums at all? If I was to say two words to you, would they mean anything? Lagging and joystick. I should be able to plug the device in and play a game, I shouldnt have to spend time troubleshooting why I have a delay when pressing up down left and right and right and dieing in a game because the response of when I move or fire takes time to register. I shouldn’t have to spend time trying to work out why I can’t move diagonally, I should be able to move where I need to move within a game. Just simple, basic fundamentals. It’s not much to expect a device that’s been specifically developed to function as intended when a device at a fraction of the cost of the c64 mini and not built specific to the task does a much better if not perfect job. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [16]Parcival what power 1.0 or more? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parcival [17]@Bronski Yes, I have read the forums thanks and I think a lot of problems are down to people not using a correct PSU with regards lag. I'm not suffering any delays. Never have since I set it up a few days ago. When I got the unit out the box, I turned it upside down and seen the required power. I plugged it in and away we go. I have a reasonably modern TV ( 3 year old LG) and all is good - no lag, no issues, nothing untoward When you say you should be able to plug it in and it work as expected I fully agree - as long as people know what is required to get it working correctly. I too have a RP3 and have used it for emulation, but I wanted the C64 Mini because it looks the part. The fact I can now create my own .d64 files is an added bonus. [18]@W12MODS - I would use 2A to be sure. I just don't think 1A will cut it if using something like a non-powered USB hub -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [19]Parcival I think they should replace the joystick with a micro switch replacement free of charge. I haven't received mine yet and it is clear the joystick isn't up to it. Micro switches rule!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- PantherUK [20]Parcival I haven't had any problems either, and if I'm honest, this is the smoothest and most accurate c64 emulator I have ever used, trust me I've tried all of them, all the way back to the first ones on the Amiga... I have never seen the high score scroll on Uridium that smooth outside of a real 64... No the joystick isn't great, but in truth if I'm not standing at my MAME cabinet, I'd rather use a pad... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- [21]« Previous Page [22]Next Page » References Visible links 1. https://community.thec64.com/ 2. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/19 4. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/28 5. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/29 6. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/30 7. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/30 8. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/31 9. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/32 10. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/33 11. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/34 12. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/34 13. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/35 15. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/39 16. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/39 17. https://community.thec64.com/u/Bronski 18. https://community.thec64.com/u/W12MODS 19. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/42 20. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/42 21. https://community.thec64.com/d/109?page=1&id=109-low-quality-joystick 22. https://community.thec64.com/d/109?page=3&id=109-low-quality-joystick [1]The C64 Community Loading... This site is best viewed in a modern browser with JavaScript enabled. Low quality joystick W12MODS [2]Parcival I think they should replace the joystick with a micro switch replacement free of charge. I haven't received mine yet and it is clear the joystick isn't up to it. Micro switches rule!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- PantherUK [3]Parcival I haven't had any problems either, and if I'm honest, this is the smoothest and most accurate c64 emulator I have ever used, trust me I've tried all of them, all the way back to the first ones on the Amiga... I have never seen the high score scroll on Uridium that smooth outside of a real 64... No the joystick isn't great, but in truth if I'm not standing at my MAME cabinet, I'd rather use a pad... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [4]PantherUK did you receive the C64 mini free? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- PantherUK [5]W12MODS not exactly, it was a birthday present, so my son got it from amazon for me... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [6]PantherUK fair enough I apologise mine is due on Tuesday and don't know what to expect. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- PantherUK [7]W12MODS Expect a superb emulation of the C64 and a hit and miss joystick... Just make sure you use the correct power and game mode seems to best on the screen... I'm over the moon with mine... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [8]PantherUK you are propably right and I think they have underestimated the demand for the C64 mini. When the USA kicks in it will go even more. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chickje [9]johnnyhotrocks Sounds like a power issue! Try a more powerful adapter anything over 2A Solved all of my problems! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- johnnyhotrocks [10]Chickje Not so sure about that, i swapped out the power supply for a ps vita one and still the joystick sucks. Nothing the home user can do to fix poor/cheap innards without replacing all the components for micro switches. Lag isn't my issue its the inaccuracy when trying to use diagonals.....hit or miss. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- spinal I'm curious why under powering would cause the emulsion to lag, rather than the machine simply cutting out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chickje [11]johnnyhotrocks True, the joystick is horrible. But with a decent power supply you can try hooking up a PS4 pad. It works about 75% of the time with me and control is perfects (when it works) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parcival Now I want an Atari 800XL like this - then it will match my bedroom of 1984 with my C64 + 1541 and my Atari 800XL with modded 1050 drive with Happy chip for fast loading. Great days with even greater games... Looking forward to the firmware update for enhanced USB support. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scorf Just tried my mini for the first time. No problems with lag but ugh the joystick is very poorly designed. It’s fundamentally uncomfortable and I agree with the poster who said it’s too easy to hit the other buttons by mistake. In fact it’s the raised area that contains these buttons that is the problem. You just can’t hold it the way you would an original Kempston competition pro. Oh for a proper microswitched quality joystick like we had in the 80s. Thinking of which I can’t believe people are being complementary about the gruesome quickshot 2. That was an utter pig of a stick that broke after a few hours. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [12]ice00 - I think what you are describing might well be lag, rather than the Joystick. Try the Joystick out on PC emulation and see if you get the same problem. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Braindome I'm not impressed with the joystick, but in my experience it's not terrible. I managed to complete the first ship in Paradroid, which is no mean feat! However, I would happily have paid more for quality micro switches. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [13]Braindome - Paradroid is a relatively sedate game. Try some of the shoot em ups. In particular try Armalyte or Zynaps. Try Winter games and select Biathlon - see how you do on the shooting section. The loading of the rifle sound effect is well over a second out/massive delay. And to shoot accurately at the targets, you will find you need to shoot very early before the aim and the target meet up/become aligned. Shoot way early when the aim is nowhere near the target and you hit the target. That weight, that heavy feeling you get in the control that never appeared on the C64, that is NOT this Joystick, it is the input latency/lag. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Killamarshian [14]Braindome Well said. I feel it is on par with a cheap 80's joystick. Let's face it I think some are comparing it to a modern joypad and how much do they cost? I would love a genuine Competition Pro stick, but even second hand they are very expensive. If Retro Games bring out a micro-switched version which in the FAQ they say they might, I for one will buy one. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Braindome [15]oldskool I was talking about the joystick. The lag is a completely different issue. The lag is nowhere near a second, more like a tenth of a second unless your TV has a slow update. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- AB85 I think a firmware update will help with lag. I used to play with a master system control in the early 90s so I don't mind using my ps4 pad for now. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [16]Braindome I have played some c64 games on vice for android and never noticed lag and that was with touch screen controls which are dreadful. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [17]Braindome I speak about lag in the way I do because I feel many people are confusing the lack of response for the joystick, when it is due to lag. I am not saying the Joystick is of a good standard. You say what you will re the lag/response time, I say what I think. Just to say I worked in the peripheral test department of Sony for over a year. I also worked as a games designer for Eidos and for Gremlin and designed control methods and user interface of various titles. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Braindome [18]W12MODS I don't know what is the cause of the lag. Really there's no excuse for it. It's a real shame. It has nothing to do with the crummy design of the joystick. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [19]Braindome so we can say there is noticeable lag and all those who say it runs perfectly are lying? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- [20]« Previous Page [21]Next Page » References Visible links 1. https://community.thec64.com/ 2. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/42 3. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/42 4. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/44 5. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/45 6. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/46 7. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/47 8. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/48 9. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/28 10. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/50 11. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/52 12. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/2 13. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/56 14. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/56 15. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/57 16. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/60 17. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/60 18. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/61 19. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/62 20. https://community.thec64.com/d/109?page=2&id=109-low-quality-joystick 21. https://community.thec64.com/d/109?page=4&id=109-low-quality-joystick [1]The C64 Community Loading... This site is best viewed in a modern browser with JavaScript enabled. Low quality joystick ArbroathSmokie Reserved it an hr ago on Argos to pick up tomorrow, looks like I wont be after reading about the joystick, sad was so looking forward to it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Braindome [2]ArbroathSmokie it would be a shame not to get it. I'm still happy with mine overall. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [3]ArbroathSmokie mine is not delivered till Tuesday don't be too hasty in not getting it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ArbroathSmokie [4]Braindome I know when I wake up tomorrow knowing its still reserved I will buy it, just reading about the joystick issues put me off a bit but I will bite the bullet. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [5]Braindome so we can say there is noticeable lag and all those who say it runs perfectly are lying? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Braindome [6]W12MODS it runs really nicely. Very smooth, but there's a delay in the graphics of about 0.1 seconds and about 0.3 seconds on the audio. Most games are quite playable, but for really fast action games, the lag causes real difficulties with timing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- RetroBiker [7]W12MODS The general impression I get from people is that when using a powerful enough adapter (say, 2A+) and a TV configured in game mode, there is little noticeable lag. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Braindome [8]RetroBiker I find the lag quite noticeable, but I'm probably a bit more sensitive to it than most. I used to work for Rare, making games for Nintendo and Microsoft consoles. My specialty was fine-tuning the gameplay. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [9]RetroBiker my only option is my 2010 Sony bravia and a 1.0 power. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- RetroBiker [10]Braindome I’ll have to give some of the higher paced stuff a go tomorrow. I’ve just had a quick look at the games. Mostly been doing BASIC and assembly stuff and programs off disks and the performance using my keyboard has been perfect so far. I don’t have your insight into it all, though. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- RetroBiker [11]W12MODS That should be fine for a lot of stuff. But if things are not as slick as you’d like, consider getting a more powerful adapter before blaming the mini... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [12]RetroBiker I will defend the C64 till death and repeat my school yard chant to speccy owners "spongey keyboard spongey keyboard" -------------------------------------------------------------------------- AGPX Aaaaargh!! The joystick is the most important device of the C64 and probably the best reason to buy the C64 Mini! The one provided is too SLOW! Many games are not playable as it should. In addition, the joystick must use the microswitches, to be by far more precise. Responsiveness and precision is the key for a good playing experience. Please build a by far more serious joystick! Remember: hyper responsive (no lag!) and with microswitches! Like this one (from site: [13]http://www.breadbox64.com/blog/joystick-maintenace/): [14]enter image description here -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [15]AGPX had exactly that competition pro it is my parents loft somewhere. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Braindome [16]AGPX the lag is NOTHING to do with the stick. The joystick is imprecise, but the lag is in the C64 mini itself. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- synchromesh Personally had they made it look like a quickshot they would have nailed the experience perfectly [17]:) To be honest though I'm not finding it that bad .. or at least getting used to it .. [18]Quickshot -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [19]synchromesh the Quickshot was rubbish my top fire button came off and I had to press the micro switch directly. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [20]Braindome so both are unplayable should I cancel my amazon order? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- synchromesh [21]W12MODS the Quickshot was rubbish my top fire button came off and I had to press the micro switch directly. You know that was a joke right [22]:) In other words it was so bad , laggy , unresponsive it seems we are getting the real quickshot experience of back then ..Hence they should have used that case and it would all seem normal [23]:) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Braindome [24]W12MODS as I've said before, I'm a little disappointed with the joystick and the lag, but I'm still happy overall. Looking forward to playing again today! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scorf I'm not experiencing any lag - am using an apple iPad charger to plug my USB into. I've tried a PS3 controller (obviously with the USB cable) and it sort of worked - was able to play Paradroid quite well but stopped responding at points so clearly not a proper replacement. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- walnutwhip i dont know if the provided stick is slow per se. its just stiff and imprecise. no microswitches and just lacklustre leaf switches do this machine no justice whatsoever. you can quite clearly see where the costs were cut. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- W12MODS [25]walnutwhip they are the same company behind the C64DTV and it is the same joystick. If everyone complains to retro games they will have to do something. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- [26]« Previous Page [27]Next Page » References Visible links 1. https://community.thec64.com/ 2. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/63 3. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/63 4. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/64 5. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/62 6. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/65 7. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/65 8. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/68 9. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/68 10. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/70 11. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/71 12. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/73 13. http://www.breadbox64.com/blog/joystick-maintenace/ 15. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/75 16. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/75 19. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/76 20. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/78 21. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/79 24. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/80 25. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/82 26. https://community.thec64.com/d/109?page=3&id=109-low-quality-joystick 27. https://community.thec64.com/d/109?page=5&id=109-low-quality-joystick [1]The C64 Community Loading... This site is best viewed in a modern browser with JavaScript enabled. Low quality joystick W12MODS [2]walnutwhip they are the same company behind the C64DTV and it is the same joystick. If everyone complains to retro games they will have to do something. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ShankYO Although there are alleged fixes for the input lag still doesn't take away how cheap and tacky the controller feels in australia this is an $150 console which makes it one of the more expensive retro rehashes, I'm quite disapointed by how the controller works and feels there is really no excuse for this and suprised it made it to retail in this state especially with the input of c64 diehards. Other than that love the console the gui is great and build quality of the console is stellar but let down by a tacky controller such a shame as there is so much love for the C64. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- synchromesh [3]W12MODS the Quickshot was rubbish my top fire button came off and I had to press the micro switch directly. You know that was a joke right [4]:) In other words it was so bad , laggy , unresponsive it seems we are getting the real quickshot experience of back then ..Hence they should have used that case and it would all seem normal [5]:) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [6]Braindome I speak about lag in the way I do because I feel many people are confusing the lack of response for the joystick, when it is due to lag. I am not saying the Joystick is of a good standard. You say what you will re the lag/response time, I say what I think. Just to say I worked in the peripheral test department of Sony for over a year. I also worked as a games designer for Eidos and for Gremlin and designed control methods and user interface of various titles. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Braindome [7]oldskool [8]oldskool it sounds like you think I'm disagreeing with you, which couldn't be further from the truth. We both agree that lag and the poor quality joysticks are two separate problems. I think maybe there was a misunderstanding. It's good to meet another ex-developer here [9]👍 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Braindome [10]W12MODS as I've said before, I'm a little disappointed with the joystick and the lag, but I'm still happy overall. Looking forward to playing again today! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [11]Braindome flat forums make it easy to speak at cross purposes. We both agree there are issues with lag and that the joystick is not so great. I was just trying to say that some people willl think the joystick is poor due to it hitting multiple directions without precision, by feeling a little cheap and not having the precision of a microswitched offering like a competition prp or zipstick, but i'm was also saying that at lest some people who think that there issue is the joystick, is actually the lag. for the latter gamers, i'm talking about those that are mistiming jumps and falling - due to the lag/input being too late, also to those not moving in time with fast twitch shooters who may complain that the controls/joystick feels heavy. I don't think we are disagreeing, just a nuanced thing that it is not easy to relate on a page. Best of. P.S Ex is the word re developing for me, too many cross country house moves. Besides I got promoted into the managerial side of dev which was a ball ache - at heart I was and should have remained a designer lol. I think a lot of people get burnt out...i was just another of those. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chickje They really need to patch in some decent joystick support. I must have tried almost a dozen different sticks and pads. They either don't respond at all or work about 60% percent of the time. Some of the games are brutal and the standard stick just isn't up to the job. Good luck lasting more than five rounds on Mega Apocalypse or surviving more than two screens of Monty of the Run with that thing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Killamarshian [12]Braindome Well said. I feel it is on par with a cheap 80's joystick. Let's face it I think some are comparing it to a modern joypad and how much do they cost? I would love a genuine Competition Pro stick, but even second hand they are very expensive. If Retro Games bring out a micro-switched version which in the FAQ they say they might, I for one will buy one. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [13]Killamarshian An entirely microswitched usb based competition pro like joystick was released years ago - with four fire buttons, I have one of them. Sadly it cannot be used as yet, not to say that updated firmware cannot bypass this issue. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Moz333 Cant say its any better or worse than i was expecting. If you were expecting something up there with the quality of an x-box or Sony controller, it was never going to happen at £65 all in. its certainly good enough, ok its not state of the art, but it does the job for me as a casual gamer.. Sony and Microsoft have pretty much mastered the way games are controlled and the games controller over the last 20 years, reverting back to an 80s style lump of plastic was never going to be easy, especially as a lot of c64 games are rock hard. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Braindome [14]Moz333 I totally agree. I wish the joystick were better, but that would have bumped the cost up, and reduced sales. Now if we can find a quality alternative, I'll be very happy. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [15]Braindome To be fair, I don't think anyone could or should have expected anything great from the joystick at this price either. That said, I do think they should have ensured the compatibility of many other superior usb devices. It is obvious that they have developed the UI with the additional functionality provided by the extra buttons on this joystick, but that should not prevent the user from operating the UI with this Joystick and using a differing device in- game or as player 2. Also it should be said they went a little bit button happy with the creation of the UI and they could via firmware updates update and improve this so that less buttons are required throughout. Any USB device that can access 4 buttons should be able to navigate the UI. I say that as someone who has designed UI. Sometimes when you afford a designer more buttons, they just start using them all lol. In reality, this UI could be streamlined to operate via 4 buttons without to much of a problem and that would allow for a great deal more USB devices to be used and be entirely compatible with the system. In the meantime though, even if the UI remains untouched and the default joystick is the de facto device for navigating the UI, they should still be able to sort out compatibility for more USB sticks - in-game. Most games use one button, fewer use two. It is only when we come to games like Gunship and the like that we had much more or full keyboard etc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- jds Adding my voice too: the joystick is almost unusable for some games. E.g. the motorbike one -- once you're at speed, the slightest nudge sends you flying off the side. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parcival Looks like the C64 Mini guys got hold of the mould for this: [16]a [17]http://www.richardlagendijk.nl/cip/article/item/hacking_the_dtv_3/en Looks like this C64 DTV-2 had a C64 emulator built-in with about 30 games...hmm... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- synchromesh [18]Parcival Looks like the C64 Mini guys got hold of the mould for this: I don't think so but many of the team were the ones that made made the DTV stick anyway [19]:) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parcival [20]synchromesh Ahh right - makes sense then if they were involved in that project. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parcival I'd say they did - look at the detail round the neck of the stick and the placement of the 4 buttons is just too similar. Also the included games is very similar although not exact. I think they've took the guts of the stick and placed them in a C64 Mini case. Not that I'm complaining - I love my C64 Mini. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- synchromesh Actually from what I remember the DTV is not emulated ... Its a real C64 Board and chips so no the guts were not used ... But whatever Pro you buy would look very similar and you can still get some USB ones if you look hard enough [21]:) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ShankYO Still the control should still be functional and usable and more accurate than it currently is using the excuse of "at the price point" doesn't warrant a usable controller is preposterous the mini nes and snes controllers are great don't feel cheap and are quite capable reproductions the nes is a 1983 console that had great controllers and improved on them when the north american version rolled out ,this is my personnal opinion though and this would vary across the board ,I'm not asking for a microswitched joystick but something a little more usuable and capable to atleast play there games the way they where meant to be played not being handicapped by how unresponsive the control mechanism is just sheer plain frustration. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- [22]« Previous Page [23]Next Page » References Visible links 1. https://community.thec64.com/ 2. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/82 3. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/79 6. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/60 7. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/86 8. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/86 10. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/80 11. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/88 12. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/56 13. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/90 14. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/91 15. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/92 17. http://www.richardlagendijk.nl/cip/article/item/hacking_the_dtv_3/en 18. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/97 20. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/98 22. https://community.thec64.com/d/109?page=4&id=109-low-quality-joystick 23. https://community.thec64.com/d/109?page=6&id=109-low-quality-joystick [1]The C64 Community Loading... This site is best viewed in a modern browser with JavaScript enabled. Low quality joystick Moz333 The Nes controllers, and Master system were the end of the joystick as we knew it.. Probably why modern controllers are based on them rather than an uncomfortable chunk of black and red plastic...micro switches or not..Joysticks have never been great unless your in the arcade in my opinion, its just once thats all there was, and you never had much to compare it to. Plus as a kid you were not as particular as you might be now, just made do with what you had. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [2]Moz333 The end for the traditional Joystick relates to the increased complexity of control methods, or rather in the design of games being based around an increased number of inputs. It has absolutely nothing to do with the lack of dexterity inherent in a joystick. You are quite wrong to suggest what you do. Joysticks are in fact far superior, objectively speaking when it comes to dexterity/manoeuvrability. I have seen the studies. This is just a fact in the same way that mouse and keyboard has been shown to be provably more accurate for target acquirement and re-aquirement when it comes to shooting mechanics - again white papers/studies have proven this. In relation to Joysticks, if you are in any doubt whatsoever, go and try to play Kick Off 2 Amiga emulation on a gamepad of any type versus a Joystick. You will soon feel like your hands are falling off and you wont be any where near accurate enough or rather have sufficient dexterity to compete. The same is true for Sensible Soccer and for many other games. Equally go and try playing a fighting game on any game pad or controller verus an arcade fighting stick, that has a microswitched joystick. A player of equal skill will hand you your arse. Joysticks went by the by as default controllers for many reasons. a) because of the inherent ergonomic difficulty of pressing multiple buttons on more complex games. It makes the traditional joystick a difficult design choice. Layouts like fighting sticks are generally too large and expensive to make. In any regard the cost of such would be prohibitively high for a default device that came with any given system. b) Joysticks are digital devices and of course, we are dealing with one stick. This presented two significant problems, 1, that analogue is more suited to the advent of 3d gaming, purely in terms of movement and 2 that dual analogue was a console answer to the keyboard and mouse for controlling first and third person games/shooting. These are what rendered the joystick obsolete for most modern games and as a defaukt device. Dexterity or precision of control when it came to 2d platformers, shoot em ups, racing games etc - 8 and 16 bit gaming - was never the issue. P.S Nes and Master system pads were garbage and were themselves very quickly surpassed in terms of ergonomics. The traditional microswitched joystick is still the best control method for certain games - hands-down. Joysticks remain the best device when it comes to fighting games via dedicated fighting sticks and this is also true with flight sims and related joystick control. Nes and Master sytem pads are best at nothing. Vastly superior pads came after and don't forget these pads themselves are also obsolete when it comes to modern gaming and being default devices because they too are digital, not analogue and also single pad as opposed to the dual control required for modern fps and 3rd person games. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Moz333 [3]oldskool Using games as examples that were designed for the controller of the time is not relevant. Its obvious they were play tested with the technology of the controller at the time.There are literally dozens of genres of games, some will suit a joystick many not. On the whole joypads have become the norm because they work for most genres. An arcade stick is technically not a joystick anyway..it has a joystick attached, but is a different controller again. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- FineLerv Loving my mini but a better joystick would definitely make the experience more enjoyable. Same aesthetics, just looser. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Coevin Yes the controller is bad but I don’t think it would be too bad if you could map the triangle button to up. Would make creatures and Hawkeye so much easier to play. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Goclastninja Im using r.o.b. the robot from the old nes of the 80s he's a perfect companion to play c64 mini with....oh wait hes not actually doing anything..[4]😀 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oldskool [5]Moz333 Let's be absolutely CLEAR here. I have not defended at ANY point whatsoever the Joystick in terms of suggesting it is a device that should have remained at the forefront of gaming. I have already detailed for you and for anyone else precisely why it was replaced as a modern default control device. What I highlighted was quite simple - that the Joystick was perfect for its time and for the games it was designed to control - which is 8 to 16 bit games prior to the advent of 3d gaming and first person/3rd person shooting requirements. I used to work for Sony mate, I worked for an entire year in their peripheral testing department. I went on to work as a games designer in the industry for companies like Gremlin and Eidos. I designed control methods in games that scored 9/10 in Official Playstation magazine. That was before going on to be an associate producer, producer and senior producer where I ran entire development teams. So really you do not have to try to tell me how to suck eggs here. If you have more experience then I'm all ears? P.S An arcade stick IS a joystick - period! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scorf Its all really down to the short sightedness of Atari who didn't give us more than one button on the original joystick. The gamepads used by Nintendo are a logical extension of the controls on the game and watch devices that were popular in the very early 80s before the NES was launched. After the huge success of the NES in Japan and the USA any other console was going to base their controls on a pad rather than the limitations of the Atari standard. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Moz333 [6]oldskool Yea but my dads bigger than your dad..!!! To be honest i probably do have more gaming experience than you going back to the early 80s but i dont feel the need to list my CV as some kind of trophy..But anyway peace, its all good. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Killamarshian I think someone needs to calm down and get off their high horse for a moment. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parcival I used to work in Bejam and I think it IS a joystick. There it's sorted. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- MAD No input lag for me. But that joystick is horrible. Makes jumping in Hawkeye a real challenge, not to mention playing zynaps, wintergames and California games. Pitstop II and super cycle were fine to play. Haven't tried Giana Sisters yet, but I guess it will be unplayable. I have several original working pro competition 9000 and the arcade joysticks would love one of those for the c64 mini. Or even a Atari 2600jr wedge shape - cramping your hands after 5 minutes- joystick would be better. I love the system itself though, now I just have to find a better joystick... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- spannernick1 I thought I post this here too.. The joystick is identical to the C64DTV joystick. here is a picture of them side by side,guess TheC64 joystick..?? Guess which is which...??? [7][IMG] I find the C64DTV joystick OK. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aneira I love the mini so far. Regarding the joystick I thought "Ohh well, how bad can it be"? Well, I lost a game in Microprose Soccer to Northern Ireland. Yes you got it right... to Northern Ireland! That's how bad it is! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- lroby74 his joystick is not too good for me.. i am feeling nice with Lioncast arcade joystick -------------------------------------------------------------------------- adgloride The joystick i’m Always catching the button for the menu and pausing the game with it. It’s not very accurate either. If they’d put in an option for the competition pro usb it wouldn’t have mattered. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aneira A follow up on that loss to Northern Ireland in Microprose Soccer with the included Competition Poo joystick. I tried connecting the SNES iBuffalo Classic USB Gamepad. It worked a treat. First match with this was a 2-1 victory over Spain. One goal scored with Banana power shot. Try that with the Competition Poo. Impossible. I believe someone wrote somewhere the iBuffalo not working. It works perfectly for me. I'm not sure how you guys power the mini. The box says AC adapter not included, but what's the point when a USB power supply cable is included? It connects straight to the TV and everything works a charm. Some has reported of faulty sounds as well. I use a "55 Sony Bravia Smart TV. It never lets me down. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- [8]« Previous Page References Visible links 1. https://community.thec64.com/ 2. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/103 3. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/104 5. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/108 6. https://community.thec64.com/d/109/110 7. https://postimg.org/image/ctyrt7fkn/ 8. https://community.thec64.com/d/109?page=5&id=109-low-quality-joystick